tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post116011372305491566..comments2011-01-12T05:00:02.088-08:00Comments on Science and politics of global climate change: Answers to a few questionsAndrew Desslerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06930067023788250505noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-66341363795611086842007-01-30T19:07:00.000-08:002007-01-30T19:07:00.000-08:00There once was a man named Al
Who said believe wha...There once was a man named Al<br />Who said believe what I say pal.<br />Do what you can<br />And stick it to the man<br />There's no way that <a href="http://www.globalwarmingawarenessin2007.com">global warming </a> isn't foul.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160423253545235872006-10-09T12:47:00.000-07:002006-10-09T12:47:00.000-07:00Feel free DB. As to Anon 2, would he please point...Feel free DB. <BR/><BR/>As to Anon 2, would he please point to something that Eli has said which he can demonstrate was fradulent? It's put-up or shut up time Anon. Get those Googling fingers busy. And, by the way, we want some evidence.<BR/><BR/>As to the size of the bet, why I never bet anything greater than $1000 or less than $10,000,000. It is so ten year old to say I'll bet you a hundred thousand dollars (although most 12 year olds say a million). <BR/><BR/><BR/>And no darlin', in a bet it ain't clear that you are talking before or after inflation unless it is specifically stated. If you want a reason why you have to be specific take a look at the article in today's <A HREF="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006100801064.html" REL="nofollow"> Washington Post about the Lerner's.</A><BR/><BR/>Finally, a bet on GDP, as mark uk pointed out is a suckers bet. In many ways this is proved by the two bets Julian Simon made. The one with Paul Ehrlich (which is quite well known) was diffuse, such as the bet Anon offered (e.g. subject to changes in many things including energy costs, efficiency, substitution,etc.) Simon made another, less well known bet on the price of <A HREF="http://www.sfws.auburn.edu/sfnmc/web/bet.html" REL="nofollow"> <BR/>pine sawtimber,</A> which he lost.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160394487137891172006-10-09T04:48:00.000-07:002006-10-09T04:48:00.000-07:00Aren't we having fun with our GDP... The few hurri...Aren't we having fun with our GDP... The few hurricanes destroying large parts of Louisiana and the Gulf Coast are also good for GDP. All those construction companies, people being paid to to help out and rebuild... Just because GDP goes up does not automatically mean that everybody is happy and things are swell...<BR/><BR/>An oil spill contributes to the GDP, so does war. Lots of people ill and in hospital? GDP goes up.<BR/><BR/>It does not measure sustainability, it does not take into account the environment.<BR/><BR/>If Bangladesh needs to spend (and thus borrow) billions to defend itself against flooding from rivers and sea that will raise the GDP. isn't it great?!<BR/><BR/>Honestly guys, at least pick up an economics book and try and learn something before you accuse other people of being ignorant or not able to contribute to a discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160361790329998902006-10-08T19:43:00.000-07:002006-10-08T19:43:00.000-07:00ELIIf you are happy to make a bet:I will be happy ...ELI<BR/>If you are happy to make a bet:<BR/><BR/>I will be happy to bet that real Global GDP will be higher in 20 years than it is now."(real means inflation free)<BR/><BR/>I see your name up at differemt sites frequently passing fraudulent and scary nonsense about AGW.<BR/><BR/>I bet you US$100,000 that world GDP is higher in 20 years time. <BR/>We can escrow with an escrow agent of your choice. Chicago Escrow Agency will do the job. If you accept this bet we can migrate to email correspondence to finalise it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160361345266489122006-10-08T19:35:00.000-07:002006-10-08T19:35:00.000-07:00EliRabett says:"Anon appears to think that no one ...EliRabett says:<BR/>"Anon appears to think that no one has ever heard about inflation, and, of course, we have the interesting point that world GDP is not very evenly distributed. Finally, he appears to have discounted the possibility that effective (although not cost free) mitigation and adaptation strategies would be adopted."<BR/><BR/>Rabbit, please stop throwing in a strawman. Of course my assumption for GDP growth would be netting out inflation. My bet is that world economic growth as measured by real GDP will be higher than it is now.<BR/><BR/>GDP has always be unevenly distributed so what in Gods name has this pathetic attempt at a curve ball have to do with it. Nothing!!!<BR/><BR/>"Finally, he appears to have discounted the possibility that effective (although not cost free) mitigation and adaptation strategies would be adopted"<BR/><BR/>Well actually no. I am hoping this "mitigation and adaption" strategy will be avoided like the plague so our GDP will be much higher. The only thing that could derail it is fraudulent policies such a Kyoto and such like.<BR/><BR/><BR/>It gets more interesting as this goes along. George L's list of contributors showed not one major economist in the group advising governments, yet we are to take their advice on major economic matters. JHC almighty, this is becoming more of a fraud as we go along.<BR/><BR/>Eli, you really have nothing to contribute to this discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160338519352081972006-10-08T13:15:00.000-07:002006-10-08T13:15:00.000-07:00Anon appears to think that no one has ever heard a...Anon appears to think that no one has ever heard about inflation, and, of course, we have the interesting point that world GDP is not very evenly distributed. Finally, he appears to have discounted the possibility that effective (although not cost free) mitigation and adaptation strategies would be adopted.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160338300665496442006-10-08T13:11:00.000-07:002006-10-08T13:11:00.000-07:00Anon, evidently has not heard of the year 10K prob...Anon, evidently has not heard of the year 10K problem....:). Ice ages are of course one of the standard throw spaghetti against the wall strategies. <BR/><BR/>The short answer as Andrew said is that if current levels of greenhouse gases increase, orbital variation will not be able to induce an ice age. A somewhat longer answer would say that even if CO2 mixing ratios remained at ~300 ppm the start of an ice age would be many thousands of years off. <BR/><BR/>Which, of course, returns us to the first paragraph. Why is this strawman being set alight?EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160330678910660812006-10-08T11:04:00.000-07:002006-10-08T11:04:00.000-07:00GMB-You wrote: "But not many of the older climate ...GMB-<BR/><BR/>You wrote: "But not many of the older climate scientists appear to be saying this."<BR/><BR/>Which "older" scientists are you referring to?<BR/><BR/>RegardsAndrew Desslerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06930067023788250505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160319282027972092006-10-08T07:54:00.000-07:002006-10-08T07:54:00.000-07:00GMB does have a valid point to make it seems to me...GMB does have a valid point to make it seems to me, Andrew.<BR/><BR/>We still don't have convinving proof that climate change will severely impact the world in an adverse way. Moreover GMB is arguing that we could actually accrue benefits from warmer earth.<BR/><BR/>Would you like to bet, just a gentleman's bet, that the world's GDP will be higher in 30 years. We of course cannot bet the end of the century for obvious reasons.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160315440974756392006-10-08T06:50:00.000-07:002006-10-08T06:50:00.000-07:00GMB, you said: [I come from the point of view that...GMB, you said:<BR/><BR/><BR/> [I come from the point of view that warming will be good. Warming of ALL the magnitudes you mention here. But my background is in economics. Not in Climate Science.] <BR/><BR/><BR/>Then, permit me borrow verbatim your other words of wisdom.<BR/><BR/>[Look dude. You can comment on anything you like of course. But third parties should realise that when it comes to the above you ARE RIGHT OUT OF YOUR FIELD OF EXPERTISE]<BR/><BR/>How could anyone say it better?<BR/><BR/>John L. McCormickAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160286564381622352006-10-07T22:49:00.000-07:002006-10-07T22:49:00.000-07:00Yeah well thats Hansens claim.Pretty much word for...Yeah well thats Hansens claim.<BR/><BR/>Pretty much word for word.<BR/><BR/>But not many of the older climate scientists appear to be saying this.<BR/><BR/>GMBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160284274264950672006-10-07T22:11:00.000-07:002006-10-07T22:11:00.000-07:00GMB-Given present forcing levels, I doubt we'll ha...GMB-<BR/><BR/>Given present forcing levels, I doubt we'll have another ice age. Humans are now controlling the climate, for better or worse.<BR/><BR/>RegardsAndrew Desslerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06930067023788250505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160282780416548822006-10-07T21:46:00.000-07:002006-10-07T21:46:00.000-07:00"What is your view on glaciation? Have we definite..."What is your view on glaciation? Have we definitely overcome this potential disaster for all time in your opinion?"<BR/><BR/>I'd like to see this one answered.<BR/><BR/>GMBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160276022329837212006-10-07T19:53:00.000-07:002006-10-07T19:53:00.000-07:00As George Landis started this, allow me a bit of s...As George Landis started this, allow me a bit of space to actually list the AR4 convening lead authors for WGII. The rest of the author list can be found <A HREF="http://www.ipcc-wg2.org/index.html" REL="nofollow"> here.</A><BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 1. ASSESSMENT OF OBSERVED CHANGES AND RESPONSES IN NATURAL AND MANAGED SYSTEMS<BR/>C. Rosenzweig (USA)<BR/>G. Casassa (Chile)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 2. NEW ASSESSMENT METHODOLOGIES AND THE CHARACTERISATION OF FUTURE CONDITIONS<BR/>T. Carter (Finland)<BR/>X. Lu (China)<BR/>R. Jones (Australia)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 3. FRESH WATER RESOURCES AND THEIR MANAGEMENT<BR/>Z. Kundzewicz (Poland)<BR/>L. Mata (Venezuela)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 4. ECOSYSTEMS, THEIR PROPERTIES, GOODS AND SERVICES<BR/>A. Fischlin (Switzerland)<BR/>G. Midgley (RSA)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 5. FOOD, FIBRE AND FOREST PRODUCTS<BR/>W. Easterling (USA)<BR/>K. Aggarwal (India)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 6. COASTAL SYSTEMS AND LOW-LYING AREAS<BR/>R. Nicholls (UK)<BR/>P.P. Wong (Singapore)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 7. INDUSTRY, SETTLEMENT AND SOCIETY<BR/>T. Wilbanks (USA)<BR/>P. Romero-Lankao (Mexico)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 8. HUMAN HEALTHU. Confalonieri (Brazil)<BR/>B. Menne (WHO / Germany)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 9. AFRICA<BR/>C. Vogel (RSA)<BR/>A. Nyong (Nigeria)<BR/>M. Boko (Benin)<BR/><BR/>Horrors, all Africans, what will George think!<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 10. ASIA<BR/>S. Wu (China)<BR/>H. Harasawa (Japan)<BR/>V. Cruz (Philippines)<BR/>M. Lal (India)<BR/><BR/>Horrors, all Asians, what will George think<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 11. AUSTRALIA AND NEW ZEALAND<BR/>B. Fitzharris (New Zealand)<BR/>K. Hennessey (Australia)<BR/><BR/>Good Lord, a Kiwi and an Aussie, no USAians. What will George think<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 12 EUROPE<BR/>J. Alcamo (Germany)<BR/>J. Moreno (Spain)<BR/>B. Novaky (Hungary)<BR/><BR/>Well, at least no French. That should molify George a bit.<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 13. LATIN AMERICA<BR/>G. Magrin (Argentina)<BR/>C. Gay Garcia (Mexico)<BR/><BR/>Hmm.....don't they know that George thinks the US owns that place?<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 14. NORTH AMERICA<BR/>C. Field (USA)<BR/>L. Mortsch (Canada)<BR/><BR/>Well, at last a USAian.<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 15. POLAR REGIONS (ARCTIC AND ANTARCTIC)<BR/>O. Anisimov (Russia)<BR/>D. Vaughan (UK)<BR/><BR/>Where are the polar bears??<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 16. SMALL ISLANDS<BR/>N. Mimura (Japan)<BR/>L. Nurse (Barbados)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 17. ASSESSMENT OF ADAPTATION PRACTICES, OPTIONS, CONSTRAINTS AND CAPACITY<BR/>N. Adger (UK)<BR/>S. Agrawala (OECD / France)<BR/>M. Mirza (Bangladesh)<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 18. INTER-RELATIONSHIPS BETWEEN ADAPTATION AND MITIGATION<BR/>S. Huq (Bangladesh)<BR/>R. Klein (Netherlands)<BR/><BR/>One of my favorite hobby horses. I shall read this with interest.<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 19. ASSESSING KEY VULNERABILITIES AND THE RISK FROM CLIMATE CHANGE<BR/>A. Patwardhan (India)<BR/>S. Semenov (Russia)<BR/>S. Schneider (USA)<BR/><BR/>The dread Steven Schneider. Alas. Alack. What will George think:(<BR/><BR/>CHAPTER 20. PERSPECTIVES ON CLIMATE CHANGE AND SUSTAINABILITY<BR/>G. Yohe (USA)<BR/>R. Lasco (Phillipines)<BR/><BR/>George will ask whether that Yohe character is a REAL American.<BR/><BR/>and so it goesEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160274074950607742006-10-07T19:21:00.000-07:002006-10-07T19:21:00.000-07:00Anon is hijacking the thread. The question is wha...Anon is hijacking the thread. The question is what harm or good various degrees of global warming will cause. Economic issues are but a subset of these.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160246487977036312006-10-07T11:41:00.000-07:002006-10-07T11:41:00.000-07:00George,who do I trust? Not too many! Sorry if I wa...George,<BR/><BR/>who do I trust? Not too many! Sorry if I was not clear but I am not dismissing the link and studies you posted. I think there is a lot to debate as to how much we should do and what we should do. I don't think the answers are there yet...<BR/><BR/>We do need to start those discussions though rather than getting stuck in the debate on whether or not AGW is real.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160242630408326012006-10-07T10:37:00.000-07:002006-10-07T10:37:00.000-07:00GMB-"What experts?" The IPCC working group II. I...GMB-<BR/><BR/>"What experts?" The IPCC working group II. <BR/><BR/>I suppose I should ask you what experts you're relying on.<BR/><BR/>RegardsAndrew Desslerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06930067023788250505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160222254706930102006-10-07T04:57:00.000-07:002006-10-07T04:57:00.000-07:00Mark UK, there are numerous analysis that were don...Mark UK, there are numerous analysis that were done for the McCain-Lieberman Climate Stewardship bills, if you don't like this one, check the EIA website, or the Charles River Associates analysis (both commissioned by the Senate), they came up with similar orders of magnitude for the high costs. Only the MIT group quoted a lower cost analysis, and that was funded by Pew, a noteable left leaning lobby group. Who do you trust? It's obvious you are not going with the "consensus" here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160198476377481522006-10-06T22:21:00.000-07:002006-10-06T22:21:00.000-07:00"I acknowledge that impacts are not my field of ex..."I acknowledge that impacts are not my field of expertise. But I do listen to the experts, and my post describes their conclusions Of course, you're free to reject the opinion of the experts. But that seems to me to be a prescription for bad policy."<BR/><BR/>Look I can't let this ridiculous unreason go.<BR/><BR/>What experts?<BR/><BR/> What ECONOMICS experts are you relying on for the ECONOMIC inferences associated with various climate temperature outcomes?<BR/><BR/>Thats a rhetorical question because I suggest you haven't been relying on any such economics experts and have just adopted the ideas of the panic-movement.<BR/><BR/>The phrase 'THE EXPERTS" isn't going to cut it. The real deal to this panic is that its a big assertions tsunami. An internet assertions tsunami.<BR/><BR/>"Of course, you're free to reject the opinion of the experts. But that seems to me to be a prescription for bad policy."<BR/><BR/>I mean look at that for a smalmy tendentious reply. I tell you that the idea that we won't adapt economically is really quite ridiculous. And all that extra plant yield and rainfall is the biggest dumb luck we could hope for.<BR/>>>>>>>>><BR/><BR/>What is your view on glaciation? Have we definitely overcome this potential disaster for all time in your opinion?<BR/><BR/>That fellow Hansen seems to think so. But is that all cut and dried?<BR/><BR/>GMBAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160172592712383082006-10-06T15:09:00.000-07:002006-10-06T15:09:00.000-07:00Let's see what the novices at the World bank have ...Let's see what the novices at the World bank have to say (by way of Mr Wolfowitz):<BR/><BR/>The industrial world is overwhelmingly responsible for today’s greenhouse gas emissions—which means that it’s those countries that must take the lead in doing something about it. Rich countries’ per capita greenhouse gas emissions today are five times higher than those of poor countries.<BR/><BR/>As rich and poor countries invest in energy infrastructure, they will need to apply energy-efficient technology to cut future greenhouse gas emissions<BR/><BR/>http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/ENVIRONMENT/EXTCC/0,,contentMDK:20764291~menuPK:407870~pagePK:64020865~piPK:149114~theSitePK:407864,00.html<BR/><BR/>And:<BR/><BR/>We have an opportunity today, to think outside the box and find new ways, practical solutions, to promote the generation and diffusion of low carbon technologies and the integration of climate concerns in development strategies. Let's work together for a climate friendly future." said World Bank President Paul D. Wolfowitz<BR/><BR/>http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXTERNAL/TOPICS/ENVIRONMENT/EXTCC/0,,contentMDK:20660008~menuPK:407870~pagePK:64020865~piPK:149114~theSitePK:407864,00.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160171884157126752006-10-06T14:58:00.000-07:002006-10-06T14:58:00.000-07:00Just a question here... Do all climate skeptics wo...Just a question here... Do all climate skeptics work for lobby groups?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160169476550946132006-10-06T14:17:00.000-07:002006-10-06T14:17:00.000-07:00Dr. D., as you know we all have biases and are bia...Dr. D., as you know we all have biases and are biased based on what we know, think we know, or learn, not only on our world views. I was not saying you're a bad person, I was just pointing out that on this particular issue (economic impacts of doing something about a 3-5 degree C climate change) that you should have people who know #1, what has to be done, and #2, what it will cost the economy and all the multiplier effects, and #3, the costs of doing nothing about it. Now, I contend that this group of "experts", WG II, have no experts at all in this field of analysis.<BR/><BR/>If you would like to see a real, rigorous and robust model of this type I am very familiar with, try this link:<BR/><BR/>http://tinyurl.com/hwk4m<BR/><BR/>You will see that the IPCC WG II are novices compared to this. I would hope that someday the IPCC really tries to gather something other than government scientists, politicians, and climatologists to work on this issue.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160164238816430702006-10-06T12:50:00.000-07:002006-10-06T12:50:00.000-07:00George,Actually the Copenhagen Consensus worked to...George,<BR/><BR/>Actually the Copenhagen Consensus worked to some pretty clear base assumptions. The most important ones being that you have 5 years and $50Bn to spend. If that is the case what would you spend it on?<BR/><BR/>As everybody agrees taking action against global warming will taek more than 5 years and $50Bn. So under those assumptions it makes sense to spend the money on the other issues discussed at the CC. <BR/><BR/>In the real world we have no 5 year restriction on action and we can spend a bit more....<BR/><BR/>Also, not very strong on climate scientists was it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160164194338366492006-10-06T12:49:00.000-07:002006-10-06T12:49:00.000-07:00George-First, I appreciate your efforts to paint m...George-<BR/><BR/>First, I appreciate your efforts to paint me as biased. That's a tried-and-true technique of those who have run out of legitimate rational arguments. That said, I try to discourage those types of posts because they don't enhance the blog's atmosphere.<BR/><BR/>Second, the Copenhagen Consensus answered the question "what should we spend our money on?" They compared various problems and concluded that AGW was at the bottom of the list. That's quite different from what I (or the IPCC) am talking about. My point (based on the IPCC) was that the harms of climate change will outweigh the benefits significantly for warmings greater than about 3 deg C. That is not at all addressed by the CC. And as far as I know, no one credible disputes that.<BR/><BR/>RegardsAndrew Desslerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06930067023788250505noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31913525.post-1160163253514527902006-10-06T12:34:00.000-07:002006-10-06T12:34:00.000-07:00Ah yes, such distinguished macro and micro economi...Ah yes, such distinguished macro and micro economists, econometric modelers, business experts, and financial wizards. Let see, here's the list for WG II participants from the Feb. 2005 meeting:<BR/><BR/><BR/>Q.K Ahmad Bangladesh Unnayan Parishad (BUP) BANGLADESH<BR/><BR/>S.J. Cohen University of British Columbia CANADA<BR/><BR/>C. Gay-Garcia Lic Francisco Estrada Porrúa MEXICO<BR/>Speaker M. Gillet Observatoire National sur les Effets du<BR/>Réchauffement Climatique FRANCE<BR/>Speaker M. Glantz National Center for Atmospheric<BR/>Research USA<BR/><BR/>S. Huq IIED UNITED KINGDOM<BR/><BR/>R.J.T. Klein Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact<BR/>Research (PIK) GERMANY<BR/><BR/>M.M.Q. Mirza University of Toronto CANADA<BR/><BR/>Vice chair IPCC M. Munasinghe University of Colombo SRI LANKA<BR/><BR/>L. Nurse Ministry of Physical Development and<BR/>Environment BARBADOS<BR/><BR/>A. Nyong University of Jos, Plateau State NIGERIA<BR/>chair IPCC R.K. Pachauri Tata Energy Research Institute (TERI) INDIA<BR/><BR/><BR/>J. Price California State University USA<BR/><BR/>A. Rahman Bangladesh Centre for Advanced Studies<BR/>(BCAS) BANGLADESH<BR/><BR/>J.B. Robinson University of British Columbia CANADA<BR/><BR/>TSU C. Sear Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and<BR/>Research UNITED KINGDOM<BR/><BR/>P.R. Shukla Indian Institute of Management,<BR/>Ahmedabad (IIMA) INDIA<BR/><BR/>F.L. Toth IAEA AUSTRIA<BR/><BR/>T.J. Wilbanks Oak Ridge National Laboratory USA<BR/><BR/>S. Wu Chinese Academy of Sciences CHINA<BR/><BR/>Sorry Dr. D, these guys are most all climatologists or general government technocrats, and we are supposed to trust them but you reject the Nobel Prize winning economics profs from the Copenhagen Consensus? Sorry, your bias is showing here, they know about as much about economic and financial impacts of adjusting to climate chnage as you do, not much.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com